What is too far and or too soon? Part 2

Iteration 7
Photo by Karl

In a previous post I asked how does society and culture define when a subject is too far "over the line" or is "too soon" after a major event. In these two posts, I am not giving an answer since I am an individual, not the society. I could tell you what I think is too far or too soon, but you can disagree.

I wrote this lengthy post the same day I wrote part 1 from this series. David from Speaking Truth gave a response the next day that applies to both days' posts. Dave wrote:

Your question: "What is too far, or too soon?" is as vague a question as, What is art and what is porn?, or What is art and what is crap?
Each of us has a set idea in our heads.
One must go back to the basics. If it is created by someone to spark an interest, be that a good or bad interest, it becomes art. I don't seperate art from porn. I have my own ideas about what I consider porn, but is also art. So I take things, whether I like them or not as being art. But there is poor art as well. Art does not cease to be because it was done poorly, it just makes it bad art. And as an artist I feel that other artists have the right to create anything they want. There should be no limits set on what is too far as long as others are not hurt in the process. If you want to create an image of a woman being raped (and she is not actually being raped) go for it. It is not hurting anyone. If some person thinks it is terrible, they don't have to look at it.
Too soon?
Well, you can't hurt Michael Jackson's reputation so I say there can't be too soon with that one. That may have been a poor example, but once again the creator of a joke is somewhat of an artist also and why should that person be put under restrictions. There were more jokes around my hometown about Michael Jackson years before he was dead than there is now, so why should we have a moment of silence just because he died?
If you are going to say it is too soon, or too far, you are putting a restriction on something based on what someone else thinks is too soon or too far and that makes no sense to me. If you want to put a self restriction on your work as the artist based on your own feelings, then pick what is comfortable for you.
And to hell with what others think.

Some groups would say my photo of Candace is too extreme because of the nudity. They may also say the photo of Leila and Hana kissing is wrong because it shows homosexual content. We wont even go into what they may think of the more graphic photos of Leila and Hana.

Leila and Hana - The Kiss
Photos by Karl

Others may find these photos no where near any line and not edgy at all. This other group may even think it is tame, cliche and boring. They may think that the edge of erotic art is what most consider porn and/or BDSM and other "extreme" activities.

Getting There
Photo by Karl
(Note, photo take in May, 2004, well before March, 2009)

Which of these two groups are right? From where you stand, you don't think you are "in the extreme." You may know you stand away from the crowd, but you feel your beliefs are correct. Most groups believe the others are the ones that are over the line or are wrong.

Almost There
Photo by Karl
(Note, photo take in May, 2004, well before March, 2009)

I've shown my erotic nudes and artistic nudes to various people. I've been praised by many for both and have been looked down upon by a few as well. I wont get into what each group believed about my photos or their motivation for their beliefs. That alone could take pages of analysis. What is important is both groups believe they are right.

There
Photo by Karl
(Note, photo take in May, 2004, well before March, 2009)

Now, how do we, as a society decide what is right or wrong. I know that overall, most citizens of the world will agree on the same boundaries. Murder, rape, child abuse, starvation, genocide, and child slavery are easy examples. What is difficult is defining an overall consensus for everyone as a group. In my opinion, that overall consensus on gray issues is impossible.

I work and live in the San Francisco area. In my office, there are three gays and lesbians that are married to their partners. There are many other openly gay employees. While I can't speak for everyone in the 100+ group of employees, most people are supportive and are happy or don't really think about it. How would those same couples be viewed in an office in Bakersfield, CA? How about Billings, MT, New York City or Tallahassee, Fl?

I used to hunt when I was a teenager. Even though I haven't hunted in almost twenty years, I do believe in the environmental need for it and understand how it is a part of the culture I grew up in. The few times I've shared these views with the people around here, they seem to feel uncomfortable and awkward at the least and upset in more extreme cases. I guess the reason they feel that way may be due to the lack of exposure to the culture I grew up in. If they grew up where it is common to be a hunter, they may be more comfortable with it due to a familiarity with it.

Just Two
Does it stop being porn if it is in black and white?
Photo by Karl

This familiarity maybe a key to my question, how do we define too far or too soon? The SF area may be more accepting about gay/lesbian culture because we are exposed to it regularly and it is becoming an accepted part of our geographical culture. The same is true about hunting and my Montana upbringing, familiarity helps things become normal.

Ok, that is just peachy. Through building familiarity we can build tolerance. What if we build a tolerance to pollution or racism or other social ills because it is part of our culture and is familiar, is that wrong? Yes. Through this, you can see how both the supporters and opposition to nude photos and other "edgy" art can feel their way of life is threatened. I am not saying it is right, just that you may be able to see why they feel threatened.

I feel threatened by the heavy hand of 2257, the Patriot Act, and many other scary laws. I feel those are threatening what I am familiar with and feel is acceptable. To the supporters of those views, they feel the opposite threat.

Now for the final question for this series? What is either one of the purposes or the purpose of art? Part of the post modern art movement emphasizes that the content is more important than the artistic or technical qualities of the art. With this belief, Robert Frank showed us the alienation and loneliness of the USA through his book, The Americans. Andy Warhol created art that made us look at the everyday mundane things like a soup can and by twisting our perception of it, change how we view these things. Diane Arbus, definitely not one of my favorites, showed us that portraits of people did not have to be pretty. She made us feel awkward looking at her photos. Her art evoked emotions from us by emphasizing the subject and the message, not how beautiful the print is. I could write about the beautiful and agonizing work of Salgado, the inflaming works by Mappelthorpe and Andres Serrano, but you get the point. Isn't one of the main purposes of art to push our boundaries?

"When People look at my pictures I want them to feel the way they do when they want to read a line of a poem twice." - Robert Frank

So, to come back full circle, what is too far or too soon? If I am an artist and I want to push the viewer's boundaries, how far can I go? I guess I can always find some niche group that will accept my photos and praise them (or despise them), but to make a big change, I have to be willing to take heat and derisive comments when showing my photos beyond the culture I am familiar with. As David said:

If you want to put a self restriction on your work as the artist based on your own feelings, then pick what is comfortable for you.
And to hell with what others think.

So, I am starting to think about where I want my art to go. In the future, not all of them will be pretty or easy to look at. Maybe I am feeling a post modern need to get messages out rather than beauty.

I like it when somebody looks at my art and it makes them think. I bet most artists like that.

What is too far and or too soon? Part 1

Learn Me

Photo by Igor Amelkovich

I recently saw a series of photos showing erotic, sensual romantic love, passionate erotic sex, aggressive controlling sex, and violent domestic abuse with possible rape. Many agreed the content in the last photo illustrated the horrors of domestic violence.

In another venue, I saw someone joking about Michael Jackson's death. That person was chastised by the audience members shouting, "Too soon!"

At what point does culture decide that something is appropriate or has stepped over the line? In the same way, how does culture decide that enough time has passed that we can look at an event more objectively and maybe even with humor?

In a recent photography class, we had an assignment to photograph veterans. During the critique, we all gushed over how stoic, anguished, powerful, heroic, and great each photo was. Some of the subjects were in current service, others older and retired. There were men and women of different races and ages. We all gushed.

At one point the instructor, a Vietnam War veteran, asked, "Is it because of the subject matter that we can not criticize the photos?" He had a point. Were we afraid to criticize the quality of the image, the subject, the composition, and other aspects because we may fear it would reflect our inner beliefs about veterans? Are veterans so revered that we must soften our attitudes out of deference to their sacrifice and service?

Their was an episode of Seinfeld where Jerry and his girlfriend could never find time alone. The only time they could was while at a movie. They made out during Schindler's List. The girlfriend's family found out and were disgusted by the lack of respect for the movie. For a show about nothing, they brought up an interesting point about freedom of thought and speech. Can the holocaust, September 11th, or any other tragedy be joked about? If yes, when, how, why, and by whom?

Now, let us talk about sex. What is too far? We know the old statement about porn, "I know it when I see it." Some see erotica and art, others see porn. I may be a freak, but I've seen erotica that was not art and porn that was.

Her Favorite
Photo by Igor Amelkovich

In a relationship, what is defined as right for the couple may be defined as "too much" or "too far" by culture. Which is right? At what point is bondage abusive? What if I put a blindfold on my lover and then kissed, massaged, tickled, and pleasured her with my mouth? What if I did that same thing but she was blind folded and softly tied up with silk bows? What if I pinned her arms under my hands? What if they were leather straps? What if I was pinching? What if she wanted and desired this? At what point does the transfer of power in a relationship, sexual or not, constitute abuse? Let us ask the same questions if the roles were reversed and I was the submissive one? Is it OK if the submissive is male?

Kinbaku
Photo by L0chai

This then brings up the question, why does the submissive partner want to be treated like this? What is his/her history? If their was prior abuse, does that make it absolutely wrong to act on it? If there was no abuse, just curiosity and desire, does that make it right?

Let us look at the roles of the stripper and the client. Men going to a strip club are seen as "dogs" at the worst and "shallow" at the least. Bachelor parties with strippers are looked down upon, but are understood as a "traditional objectification of women" right of passage. Married guys going once, or continually to strip clubs are leches and unfaithful.

How about the reverse? What are the perceptions of women seeing male strippers? How about the bachelorette party? Married women going to see the Chippendale dancers? Some say it is wrong and disgusting. Others celebrate that women can finally celebrate their sexuality and desires. It brings equality to the misogynistic history of the men going to see strippers. At that point though, isn't it misanthropic?

Restrained
Photo by D Photos

I am a libertarian on most of these issues. What floats your equally accepted and desired boats is your business. That is true for most things, but I have to take issue when we delve into the reasons we desire such things. At that point, when is it OK to go too far or when is it too soon or soon enough to go into taboo areas?

Up Time
Photo by Dee Selaris

I've posted a gamut of photos here, one mine, most not. Some may seem tame and some may be defined as violent or abusive. At which point did they cross the line? I know I have my own definitions for that line, but how do we as a society decide where to put that line?

That Time
Photo by Karl

Ode to the Contact Sheet

Katie Contact3
Photos by Karl

Busy day ahead for me. I've got a ton of job-type work to do, which is not fun on a day off. It needs to get done though.

If you have not viewed it yet, go to this link at SLATE to see an ode to the old contact sheets.

I always thought of contact sheets as a useful tool, not art in themselves. I have played with making small pictures though and using them in a collage. I may need to play with these ideas some more.

PHOTO NOTE - Above is a contact sheet from my session with Katie.

"That is the Worst it Will Get. I am Free"

Power Projection
Photo by Karl

I stayed after photography class to help put gear away. While chatting, I asked my photography instructor about his Vietnam experience. I learned an important lesson.

He was drafted at 19 and served over there in the late 60's. He served in the infantry for a year, but after they discovered some of his cartographic and design skills (Part of his artistic background., who says a liberal education is a waste?), he served his remaining time in Saigon helping lay out maps.

He was in his early twenties when he was honorably discharged. He had an epiphany. He told me he realized, "That is the worst it will get. I am free."

He realized that after living through the hell of war, nothing in his life could be that bad. He knew that he could be successful in the arts because no matter how poor or big of a challenge of being an artist is, he had been through worse.

Now he is in his sixties. He doesn't regret it a bit. He is not rich, but he is successful. He teaches other photographers and helps them grow into their own vision. He has been divorved three times and has been through therapy. He is kind and gentle when needed and gives a good kick in the ass also when needed. He also can laugh at himself. I would say he is a success in ways that few rich people can achieve.

A Satisfied Mind
Johnny Cash

How many times have
You heard someone say
If I had his money
I could do things my way

But little they know
That it's so hard to find
One rich man in ten
With a satisfied mind

Once I was waitin'
In fortune and fame
Everything that I dreamed for
To get a start in life's game

Then suddenly it happened
I lost every dime
But I'm richer by far
With a satisfied mind

Money can't buy back
Your youth when you're old
Or a friend when you're lonely
Or a love that's grown cold

The wealthiest person
Is a pauper at times
Compared to the man
With a satisfied mind

When my life has ended
And my time has run out
My friends and my loved ones
I'll leave there's no doubt

But one thing's for certain
When it comes my time
I'll leave this old world
With a satisfied mind

How many times have
You heard someone say
If I had his money
I could do things my way

But little they know
That it's so hard to find
One rich man in ten
With a satisfied mind

,

n

I never get tired of finding new gems from my time with models of years past.

Out of Expediency

Just Seconds Before Lines
Photo by Karl

It is funny how work is careening forward into the end-of-the-year wall to get stuff done that we should have been doing all year long. I am putting in long weeks to get stuff done before 2010 graces our calendars.

So today, out of expediency, it is another blog version of the clip show. All of these images should be new, but repeats may occur.

I miss writing good (in my mind) stuff. Here are some flowers for the ladies.

I Never Remember the Name of a Flower
Photo by Karl

2
Phot by Karl

Front Passenger Side
Photo by Karl
Berkeley "Exhibitionist" and Voyeurs
Photo by Karl

A Paroxysm and the Birth of the Vibrator

Eavesdropping (from the play In The Next Room, or the Vibrator Play)
Photo by Joan Marcus

Here is a link to an interesting story from NPR. There is a new play out by Sarah Ruhl titled, In the Next Room, or the Vibrator Play.

It is set in the 19th century and is about how physicians would induce paroxysms in women to help cure their hysteria. Basically the doctors were giving them orgasms. This play looks at sexuality in women and the ignorance of their own pleasure due to civil constraints.

I suggest you read or listen to the story and watch a few short clips from the play. It looks interesting.

Anyway, I hope all of you enjoy a paroxysm or two today. Is there a better way to start the week?

Avedon Bonus Post

Here is a good documentary titled, American Masters - Richard Avedon: Darkness and Light divided into 9 parts on YouTube.

Here you go.

Here is a link with all nine videos.

http://www.youtube.com/user/mikebridge#p/u