Leila and Hana
The scenes grow increasingly erotic, graphic, and by one point shows full penetration and male ejaculation. Is it pornographic, hardcore, erotica, art? Can it be all of these? Can art be pornographic or pornography be art?
This is not the first time these questions have been asked. Bob Guccione's Caligula and John Cameron Mitchell's Shortbus pushed these same issues to the question. Can graphic, actual sex captured through various media rise up to be art?
Dr. L recently wrote in her blog:
Anyone who has watched porn films, even classics like "Behind the Green Door," will notice the complete lack of authentic emotion. So, for me, high emotion vs. the lack of convincing emotion separates erotica from pornography.
The balancing act, the success or failure to stop just short of going too far, determines whether it is erotica or pornography.In a comment to her post, I wrote:
That goes back to the classic line that I am going to poorly paraphrase, "I can't define what pornography is, but I know it when I see it." I think this boundary between erotica and pornography varies from person to person and between cultures.
I like your concept of needing real emotion between the people in the photo/video to help make it erotica. I hadn't thought of that, but I think that hits the nail on the head.
When I saw Mr. and Mrs. Smith, staring the ever sexy Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, I could tell there was a real passion between them. Even though it was a tongue-in-cheek movie, their emotions and desire for each other made it white-hot for me. It was real.
After seeing 9 Songs, I've decided that it is (for me) pornography, erotica and it maybe even has artistic merit. The characters have a complex, caring relationship and their sex is not the usual cliche crap you find in standard commercial porn. It feels like you are watching two people connect physically and emotionally.
For me it is the intent of the piece that makes it erotic, pornographic, artistic or all of these and more. If the creator's intent is to go beyond just shock, awe, and titillation, and to try to put an artistic statement on it, then it is difficult to dismiss as just porn. I don't see all pornography as being without merit or purposes other than masturbatory eye candy. It can be art and erotica.
Since seeing my first Playboys, Penthouses and occasional Hustlers, through the porn videos of the 90's and the boom of porn on the internet, I've seen lots of porn. During all those experiences, I've seen some pornography that I feel is art. I believe some of the images I captured of Leila and Hana are pornographic. I also consider them artistic and erotic. One of the reasons I feel they are more than porn was my, and their, intent. I wanted to capture graphic moments that when seen together in a series shows not only the tender and caring relationship of these two women, but also the intense physical way they celebrated it.
Some believe, including me, that subtlety and leaving things to the imagination can be more erotic than explicit depictions. I also believe sometimes we need to see the "whole monty." This is true whether it is sex, war, poverty, domestic violence, and other real life issues. If we did not see the bodies of victims killed in the name civil rights, fascism, communism, genocide, crime, drugs and other atrocities, we would not have been moved to act. The same goes for poverty and other tough topics. They pushed our comfort and made us think of how to react.
All of this makes me believe that what most, including myself, consider pornography can also be acceptable art and important to be created. Is sex that taboo and should we only be limited to accepting violent graphic imagery as art?
Great post, Karl. I have some work that I have wondered about - is it art - because it is so real? It's not even how explicit the work is, it comes down to how personal.
ReplyDeleteFrom Stephen Haynes - (I accidentally rejected his comment, but the text is below.)
ReplyDeleteA couple points, Karl.
First, "9 Songs" predated "Shortbus." Both are certainly equal in terms of erotic (even pornographic) content, although distinctly different in how they treat the subject. I think both manage to be artistic (as was "Sex and Lucia" and other similar movies).
Second, the supposed quote was "I can't define obscenity, but I know it when I see it." Actually it was never actually said like that, but no matter. The key point here is that "obscenity" is not protected speech; "pornography" is. So we may debate whether pornography is artistic, erotic, crass, banal, etc., but it is -- for better or worse -- protected speech. (That's why Republicans did the 2257 end-run.)
This is all relevant to me because I'm presently involved in a public controversy with another photographer relating to whether my "Sappho" series of photos is pornographic. He's no lawyer, and may have been throwing around a colloquial usage of the term, but I take offense when someone calls my work porn.